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FORUM: Lucidity  |  Discussion Topics by Subject  |  Psychology, Language and Communication  |  On perceptions of media bias

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Author Topic: On perceptions of media bias  (Read 294 times)
artappraiser
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« on: March 22, 2008, 01:51:24 PM »

Take it outside of the current Obama vs. Clinton brouhaha for some clarity:

The Thin Skin of Apple Fans
By Dan Mitchell
New York Times, March 22, 2008

...When “a reporter, editor, news network, or pundit mentions the other side’s arguments, it stings,” Mr. Manjoo writes. “Psychologists call this the ‘hostile media phenomenon,’ and it goes far in explaining how both Apple and PC folks can see the opposite bias in the same news story.”...

I was pleased to see this article on the top ten emailed list on the Times' site.
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cscs
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 04:16:57 PM »

Interesting. And I also think it adds clarity to the Obama vs. Clinton arguments, specifically why both sides accuse JMM of bias against their side.

I'd like to check out that book, because it sounds like there may be some things I wouldn't agree with, but it's hard to tell in that short article. "Post-fact" society? While that may be true, I wonder if blaming on "new communication technologies" is really the root cause...?
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TheraP
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 08:40:30 PM »

Sounds more like the principle of cognitive dissonance to me.  Where you choose a "brand" or whatever and because you chose it, you view your choice as not only good but best... and you selectively boost your perception of the positives of your choice, while amplifying the negatives of the alternate choice.  So that choice alters perception.

It works to the degree that your reality testing can stretch.  For example many who voted for bill clinton finally tipped into being very annoyed at him (and even the Dems) during the Monica debacle.

That may be at the root of what we see happening in this primary.  Well, one of the things at the root. 

Amazing how you can find similarities across topics.
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The Facilitatrix
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2008, 01:18:22 AM »

Well, all of this is fine, except for one thing:  Apple is better than PC! Wink*


*First emoticon I have ever used.
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Eric Stepp
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2008, 10:03:42 AM »

Sounds more like the principle of cognitive dissonance to me.  Where you choose a "brand" or whatever and because you chose it, you view your choice as not only good but best... and you selectively boost your perception of the positives of your choice, while amplifying the negatives of the alternate choice.  So that choice alters perception.

It works to the degree that your reality testing can stretch.  For example many who voted for bill clinton finally tipped into being very annoyed at him (and even the Dems) during the Monica debacle.

That may be at the root of what we see happening in this primary.  Well, one of the things at the root. 

Amazing how you can find similarities across topics.

TheraP, I've only studied psychology and alternative behavioural therapies as a hobby, but I'd have to agree with the cognitive dissonance. Which, in my opinion, sounds a lot better than "cult", "brainwashed", or "drinking the Kool Aid."

Can we give Obama supporters Prozac instead of bumper stickers?  Wink

I admit to getting wrapped up in my own version. For me, I totally see the cognitive dissonance of Obama supporters.

This isn't to say I don't see it in Clinton supporters, too. It's just that sexism hits closer to home for me than racism (being a heterosexual, white, 30-something male, I'm not allowed to have identity politics). The sexism in this campaign against Ms Clinton has been abhorrent, mostly coming from the GOP and Obama's YouTube fans. So, I tend to cut her supporters a little more slack in their dissonance.

To get back to what I was saying. So, I also have my own form of cognitive dissonance, but it doesn't have anything to do with either candidate. It has to do with Obama supporters, and how that affects my view of media bias. Because they're more vocal, because Obama's rallies are huge events (see the Portland video that I posted, for example), it seems like all I see are Obama supporters.

And so, it seems, all I see on the news, or political sites, are pro-Obama / anti-Clinton stories. Just look at Election Central. Or Josh's main blog. Not a single pro-Clinton piece. Or, if it's a neutral Clinton piece, they often throw in a pro-Obama snippet. The other thing is the editorial snark that accompanies Clinton-based posts, and not Obama-based posts.

I know there will be people here, who would disagree in any bias. But, I ask you to just read the stories, calculate them based on the pro/anti/neutral aspect of the story, and look at to whom the snark is directed.

If I still believe that TPM and other media sites are pushing slanted stories, doesn't that just reaffirm my own cognitive dissonance?

It would be if I thought those sites were slanted for a particular endorsement of a candidate. I think this is where I see most of my own dissonance, and maybe some of the "media bias" claims. What I keep forgetting is that there's a difference between bias and agenda. Before we can claim bias, we have to know the agenda of the "biased" party.

What is Josh's agenda? What is TPM Media's agenda? What is the agenda of media, in general?

I don't have exclusive access to the inner workings of Josh's or Greg's minds. But, I do know that Josh has posted a few times on reporting the horse race. Here's the link to his post in February, and a little snippet of what Josh said:

Quote
To put it simply, it doesn't surprise me that people think we're dedicating a lot of time to the campaign horse race because that's what we're trying to do. Now there are certainly lame and not so lame ways to cover it. You can get more or less distracted by the irrelevancies kicked up by the debate, you can ignore whether what one side's saying is true or untrue and treat it like a he said/she said rather than digging down to provide some refereeing of the bamboozlement. And though I like to think we do pretty good on that score certainly we have and will fall short at times.

But my basic take on this is that at this point in the campaign the vast majority of our readers knows the basic policy differences between the candidates. Most of you are people who are into politics and are looking for really good coverage of the campaign. And that's what we're trying to provide. And the campaign is a race between one or more candidates. So, speaking for myself, I'm into polls. I want to know what the different campaigns strategies are, what issues voters are interested in and responding to, who's putting together good field organizations on the ground, etc. And I think readers are too.

At least for TPM, it appears the focus is on the horse race, and not an endorsement of a particular candidate. Which means the reasons for posting attacks and praises for a candidate isn't because of interest of the candidate, but because it keeps the horse race going. If the nomination was wrapped up - which many Obama supporters claim - then there would be no real reason to tune in to the talking heads. Horror of horrors, ad revenue could go down!

This, at least, is what we need to remember. Media isn't necessarily interested in truth, or reporting the facts. It's interested in ratings and the bottom line. So, in my opinion, the media isn't biased "against Clinton". Rather, it's biased against the "inevitable front-runner" that threatens Media's agenda of perpetuating the horse race.

I imagine we'll see more negative (or reversals) stories about Obama in the near future.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 10:39:22 AM by Eric Stepp » Logged

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cscs
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2008, 11:37:53 AM »

I know there will be people here, who would disagree in any bias. But, I ask you to just read the stories, calculate them based on the pro/anti/neutral aspect of the story, and look at to whom the snark is directed.

First, I agree with what you said about the media's agenda -- it's ratings. And, therefore, it's about keeping the news "interesting," "exciting," etc. And Clinton when Clinton, the favorite in the race, screws up, they pile on, because the underdog/David v. Goliath story is compelling as a narrative.

But I also think part of why the news seems to be more positive about Obama is that Clinton's been giving them reasons to write more negative stories about her. Now, of course maybe that's my built-in bias at play, but I really don't care who wins this race. I'm not rabid about Obama.

But, keeping up with the news as I try to do, it seems to me that Clinton is playing the game at a somewhat lower-stooping level than Obama. I mostly see it in her tone regarding John McCain, and how she's willing to elevate McCain at the expense of Obama.

Neither is perfect, but Obama, to me, seems to be more of a D Team player at this point. And I think that's being reflected in the coverage.

Again, maybe it's just my bias coming through. I don't know...
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Eric Stepp
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2008, 11:57:30 AM »

I know there will be people here, who would disagree in any bias. But, I ask you to just read the stories, calculate them based on the pro/anti/neutral aspect of the story, and look at to whom the snark is directed.

First, I agree with what you said about the media's agenda -- it's ratings. And, therefore, it's about keeping the news "interesting," "exciting," etc. And Clinton when Clinton, the favorite in the race, screws up, they pile on, because the underdog/David v. Goliath story is compelling as a narrative.

But I also think part of why the news seems to be more positive about Obama is that Clinton's been giving them reasons to write more negative stories about her. Now, of course maybe that's my built-in bias at play, but I really don't care who wins this race. I'm not rabid about Obama.

But, keeping up with the news as I try to do, it seems to me that Clinton is playing the game at a somewhat lower-stooping level than Obama. I mostly see it in her tone regarding John McCain, and how she's willing to elevate McCain at the expense of Obama.

Neither is perfect, but Obama, to me, seems to be more of a D Team player at this point. And I think that's being reflected in the coverage.

Again, maybe it's just my bias coming through. I don't know...

Do you think Ms Clinton's "playing the game at a somewhat lower-stooping level" is a cause, or an effect, of the constant negative publicity? Keep in mind, she's had to deal with this constant barrage of negativity nationally since 1992 (I don't pretend to know what the gubernatorial race was like).

Does that give her an excuse for her campaign's negativity? No. Does it provide a perspective? Yes.

Media, on the day of her announcement to run, started questioning her electability, Clinton-Bush fatigue, and her openness:

Quote
The size and experience of the Democratic field underscores the reality that, for all of her support, fundraising potential and political muscle, Clinton continues to face questions about whether she can win a general election.

The electability issue comes in different forms. Will she suffer from a sense of Clinton fatigue on the part of many voters, who may be looking for the kind of fresh face Obama offers? Is she too defined as a partisan Democrat to fit the mood of an electorate that may be hungry for a different style of politics after eight years of the Clinton presidency and six years of Bush? Have the attacks against her as a cold and calculating politician created an image that, correct or incorrect, will be difficult to overcome?
...
But many Democrats say she will have to work to overcome skepticism about her candidacy inside the party. "Can they [voters] finally see the reality of Hillary Clinton, not the myth of Hillary Clinton?" said Mickey Kantor, who was commerce secretary in the Clinton administration and supports the senator's candidacy. "The money will be there. . . . The experienced people will be there. All those things she will have. But the image [is something] she will have to turn around in some parts of the country."

I don't see that kind of skepticism against any other Dem candidate. It seems to my biased mind, that at 41% Ms Clinton was prime target #1 for a media take-down in order to generate the horse race that so boosts ratings.
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tlees2
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2008, 12:01:09 PM »

All I know is that the Obama and Clinton supporters need to support whichever Dem gets the nomination or we're getting McCain who will then proceed to give us 4 more years of disastrous non-leadership.
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cscs
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2008, 01:19:11 PM »

Media, on the day of her announcement to run, started questioning her electability, Clinton-Bush fatigue, and her openness


But aren't those real questions? Her high negatives have always raised the electability question, the dynasty issue is real (it's certainly a concern for me...), and her openness -- that, perhaps, is a result of the witch hunt against her and Prez Bill. I will give you that one.

Part of this is I don't think it's "her" as much as that the media does want to take down the front-runner, to make the race interesting (even if just for themselves, since they have to have something to write about). So we're in agreement there. But I don't think that's the whole story.

Part of it is that she has invited this upon herself, by where she chose to put her stake in the ground against Obama. By playing up John McCain, for example, she is not exactly endearing herself to the Democratic base. That's where I'm saying she's playing things a bit in the gutter. The "CiC test," Ferraro (where she could have drawn a line in the sand but didn't), now raising Wright again. She's saying those things -- it has nothing to do with the media. She's not being misinterpreted when she says that only she and McCain are ready to be Pres.
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Eric Stepp
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2008, 01:31:31 PM »

Media, on the day of her announcement to run, started questioning her electability, Clinton-Bush fatigue, and her openness


But aren't those real questions? Her high negatives have always raised the electability question, the dynasty issue is real (it's certainly a concern for me...), and her openness -- that, perhaps, is a result of the witch hunt against her and Prez Bill. I will give you that one.

Part of this is I don't think it's "her" as much as that the media does want to take down the front-runner, to make the race interesting (even if just for themselves, since they have to have something to write about). So we're in agreement there. But I don't think that's the whole story.


The high negatives, I'll somewhat give you. I say somewhat, because, really, who created those negatives? Maybe that's something we can agree to disagree about.

Regarding the dynasty issue, so we're penalizing Ms Clinton, her own individual, for the presidencies of Bush Sr, Bill Clinton (of whom I don't remember too many Democrats complaining about during his actual presidency), and George Bush? If Ms Clinton is the best candidate, who cares if there's a "dynasty"? The only reason I'd be concerned about "dynasty" is if she wasn't qualified.

Quote
Part of it is that she has invited this upon herself, by where she chose to put her stake in the ground against Obama. By playing up John McCain, for example, she is not exactly endearing herself to the Democratic base. That's where I'm saying she's playing things a bit in the gutter. The "CiC test," Ferraro (where she could have drawn a line in the sand but didn't), now raising Wright again. She's saying those things -- it has nothing to do with the media. She's not being misinterpreted when she says that only she and McCain are ready to be Pres.

I agree that what the Clinton campaign is doing now on these topics is reckless and very negative (and can be interpreted as racist). Two things on that, though. First, when did the Clinton campaign really start to go negative? Those issues you listed only started after Super Tuesday. Second, these aren't the only talking points coming out of the Clinton campaign. Yet, to hear the media, this is all they are putting out.
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cscs
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 02:31:41 PM »



Regarding the dynasty issue, so we're penalizing Ms Clinton, her own individual, for the presidencies of Bush Sr, Bill Clinton (of whom I don't remember too many Democrats complaining about during his actual presidency), and George Bush? If Ms Clinton is the best candidate, who cares if there's a "dynasty"? The only reason I'd be concerned about "dynasty" is if she wasn't qualified.
............

I agree that what the Clinton campaign is doing now on these topics is reckless and very negative (and can be interpreted as racist). Two things on that, though. First, when did the Clinton campaign really start to go negative? Those issues you listed only started after Super Tuesday. Second, these aren't the only talking points coming out of the Clinton campaign. Yet, to hear the media, this is all they are putting out.

On the second paragraph, fair enough. There is definitely something to what the news media is focusing on.

On the first, this for me raises an interesting questions, because I also thought she was running as a "co-presidency." And, in fact, what I especially liked about the idea was a two-for-one deal. Knowing that Bill Clinton has tremendous clout around the world, and he'd do much to square up our relations with other countries. (That point, though, is somewhat neutralized by Obama, who I also think has a wide appeal in terms of other countries.)

But what I didn't realize is how much this co-presidency idea would actually be a problem in actual practice. Having two Clintons on the campaign trail proved it out -- many times, the press would be surrounding *Bill* Clinton, not Hillary. He's the one with rock star status, so then that raises questions (for me at least) about how effective Hillary might be in office.

Anyway, the dynasty issue has pluses and minuses. You're right in that she (or anyone) shouldn't be penalized by the people that came before her.

But something about Bush-Clinton X 2 bothers me. Maybe I'm not even sure why. I feel like this country is stuck in a time warp sometimes -- like things haven't changed since 1992. Clintons in the news, Rush Limbaugh on the radio, etc. The word "liberal" is still dirty. Like we're in some kind of fog, one that wasn't lifted in 2000, or in 2004.

Now, mostly, I just want something radically new. I'll have to, though, settle for Obama. :-) But he just might be new enough to lift the fog.
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Tom Wright
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2008, 05:35:38 PM »

What made me uncomfortable about Clinton redux was the "appearance of a conflict of interest". After two terms in the WH any occupant is maximally connected, these days. Witness the climb from aprroximately broke to around $40 million. So if there were people worrying about what the Clintons were up to, that would be magnified hugely.

But I think that in practice, that fear would defeat Hillary's hopes for election. I think the people hoping for more Clinton would be outnumbered by those afraid of it.
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Devon
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2008, 07:11:22 PM »

"Post-fact" society? While that may be true, I wonder if blaming on "new communication technologies" is really the root cause...?

This is a typo: it's gotta be 'pre-fact' society.
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